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Find your family story.

Problems with Evernote and Genealogy?

3/9/2012

27 Comments

 
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Who are you?
[Warning: this is a rather long post. If you're looking to skim a post, this isn't it.]

Okay. It's taken me all week to research and verify this. First of all, let me state that there are many ways researchers search online, and however you are doing it is the right way if it works for you.

Also? If you're using Evernote as part of your research workflow and you're happy with the way you're doing things, then it's the right way.

And neither a Conclusion-Based Database Software User nor an Evidenced-Based Database Software User is wrong. They're just different, and that's okay. [Information on those terms: Randy Seaver's Are You an Evidence-Based or a Conclusion-Based Genealogist? and from Russ Worthington's When to enter data into your Genealogy Software? ]

And if you're an all-paper researcher, an all-digital researcher, or somewhere in between, that's okay too.

And whether you started researching 30 years ago when it was all paper all the time or whether you started yesterday on Ancestry.com on your laptop and you own an iPad, and/or iPhone or if you are somewhere in between, well, that's okay too.

Me? I'm a New Age Genealogist doing New Age Genealogy.
  • I started on Ancestry.com almost 8 yrs ago.
  • I have a ton of paper files.
  • I have a ton of digital files scattered all over the place thanks to just signing up for free cloud storage service. Everywhere.
  • I'd like to be completely digital including having document images of sources and notes attached to the appropriate individuals.
  • I'd like to back up to the cloud for all my genealogy data.
  • I'm an Evidenced-Based Database Software User.
  • I want my online research workflow to run as smoothly and as efficiently as possible.
  • I use my iPhone to handle all offline research data capturing and uploading. [Yes, I'm on the newer side of researching AND I go offline.]
  • I use my iPhone and Nook Tablet to access my online Ancestry.com tree for reference while researching offline.
  • I want the information I find online to be able to be saved so that I can input it in my genealogy database software that is offline and into the database that I maintain online. [Right now those are separate, and I don't like that and I'm evaluating my current options to rectify. Mainly, Family Tree Maker 2012. It's almost what I want.]
  • I want my data synced to all my devices so that I can access it whenever and wherever I want [because I like driving my husband crazy every time I go over my data plan every month.

Why doesn't Evernote work with my Online Research Workflow?
[I don't know. I didn't make the darn thing. But here goes...] Well, let's say today is THE day. I'm surfing the internet because I have a 3-day weekend holiday, and I'm not stopping until I find the genealogy data that I need to help me with my brick wall problem or to give me a clue as to where to look offline. And guess what? Today turns out awesome. I'm on a roll. I'm finding 'stuff' left and right. I've got multiple tabs open on my browser for Google Search, Bing, Geneabloggers.com [to search surnames on all the genea-blogs], Ancestry.com, FamilySearch.org, GenealogyBank.com, Footnote.com, Genforum.com, Rootsweb.com, USGenWeb.org, and whatever else I could think of. And? I'm web-clipping, saving URLs, and writing lots of notes and citation information in Evernote. And that's just the first day.

After a 3-hour cat nap at my desk,  I wake up and continue the hunt. Then towards the middle of my 3-day genealogy research binge, the thought crosses my mind that maybe I should start transferring this info to my genealogy database [because I'm Evidence-Based]. Besides, shouldn't I be using the tools for analysis in my genealogy database software that I paid good money for?

But, alas! After much googling and forum stalking I find the following unsatisfactory options for my situation:
  1. Keep all the data in Evernote, and every time I run a report in my software, don't forget I have a bunch of stuff in Evernote about these people.
  2. Keep all the data in Evernote, and every time I am using my software in some capacity, look at the notes on individuals for the link that  I put there to take me to my notes in Evernote, which if I print a report with notes to give to a distant cousin, that will be appreciated, I'm sure.
  3. I can use the Export feature in Evernote. Yes! Oh, but no. I find that it exports in 2 types of files ~ HTML and XML, neither of which are compatible with my offline or online genealogy databases software [and not a whole lot of other things]. [Because why make it easy?]
  4. I can email everything to myself, download to my hard drive, then upload to anywhere. 50 notes in several different notebooks? Doable, but in this day and age? Unacceptable.
  5. I could cut and paste everything out of there, but see number 4 above. [Seriously? Cut and paste?]

By now, I'm thinking, "Why did everyone say to use Evernote for genealogy research? I can't easily do anything that I want to with the data I find and save. It's backed up all right. And locked up, too.

So, what do I do?
With everything given above, I have a particular online research workflow that is not supported easily [if at all] by Evernote. Check out the cool flowchart I made below. Be nice. I haven't made one since I took Computer Math in high school to avoid taking typing. Yes, the joke was on me when I made that decision. Computer Math is HARD.]
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My Online Research Workflow
So, what tech do I use to help me collect data, annotate it if  I want [which can't be done very well in Evernote], AND be able to save it in a type of file [like PDF or JPG] that's compatible with my online and/or offline software? [Greedy much? Not really considering the tech is out there.]

My solution is to use a Firefox browser add-on called Fireshot where I can capture all or part of the screen or web page, if I want to, then I annotate it with colors, shapes, text, and lines [Oh my!]; and then I save it to my Dropbox file located on my hard drive. It then automatically syncs to the cloud. Like magic. And the beauty is that it is saved as a JPG and since I use Ancestry.com as my online tree database, you can see the document on the person and the fact or clue it supports [whereas if it was a PDF for what they call a 'story' it's a link to be read in a PDF reader.] Also? I have Dropbox on my iPhone. Handy.]

If I'm on a site like FamilySearch.org where it allows me to save a document like a death certificate AND I don't want to annotate it, then I save it in my Dropbox file on my hard drive and it automatically saves to the cloud. Like magic. However, the beauty of taking a screenshot of it is that it captures info like the title of the collection and the name, FamilySearch.org, so that all I have to add [annotate] is the date accessed and the URL address. All of which makes creating the citation later much easier and streamlined. [But that's just me.]

One thing to note is that if you're going to annotate a document, it would be best if you took 2 screenshots. One of which you just saved. Keep it clean. And the second you mark up with notes, etc.

Last thoughts. Sorta.
My workflow is not wrong. And if you do it differently than me, it's not wrong either. We're just different. There are some out there who do it very similar to me, or would like to. Therefore, I thought I'd explain how I do it. Plus? If you are wanting to do it similar to the way I do it, I thought I'd warn you about Evernote. It's all fine and dandy if you want to fill up the file cabinet [which is what Evernote is likened to], but it doesn't play well if you want to relocate your data out of the file cabinet. That's important if you collect data and then move it elsewhere in the same manner that I do.

Now, that's not to say that I don't use Evernote. I use it for collecting data that I'm going to write about for articles and blogging. Well, I did use it until my husband's company offered MSOffice Professional Plus 2010 for $10 to us. And? It came with OneNote. I absolutely adore OneNote because it supports the way I actually research online and produces files in .doc and pdf and that makes me happy. Therefore, I don't actually do the above process unless I want a JPG [an image], which sometimes I do. What can I say? I like options. However, the above process is good for those who cannot afford MSOffice with OneNote. [OneNote also has an app for my iPhone.]

But? It comes down to these questions:
  • Are you a Conclusion-Based or an Evidence-Based kind of researcher?
  • Do you desire to be all-digital or not?
  • How do you use your offline and/or online database software?
  • Do you want to back up your data to the cloud?
  • Do you want your source documents and notes attached to the folks and facts [or clues] in your database that they pertain to?
  • Do you like to be able access your data all the time digitally?
  • What technology do you already own? Do they support each other?
  • What's your overall plan with and for your data?
In my next post, I'll have a video tutorial demonstrating my workflow for those who are interested.

What's your online workflow? What tech are you using? Does it work for you? Any questions about mine? Let me know in comments below.

~Caroline
New Age Genealogist
27 Comments
Sheri Bush
3/9/2012 06:47:54 am

Caroline,
I enjoyed your post very much. It's come at just the right moment for me, as I have just begun working with Evernote. I will have to run through a few trials with how I work to see if it is going to be helpful or maddening.
BTW, I am between the worlds, half modern digital and half old school. I started before computers so that is not a shocker I suppose. But I have found that everyone finds their own way of working and no one way is right.

Reply
Caroline M. Pointer
3/9/2012 12:47:47 pm

Sheri, that's all anyone should do is review your process and make sure the technology you are using is supporting as much as you need it to.

I have lots of paper because I printed out everything. Love the idea of digital.

Thanks so much for stopping by and commenting. I really appreciate it.

~C

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Tessa Keough
3/9/2012 06:54:46 am

thanks - I have had the same thoughts about Evernote and just thought "am I the only one who thinks it doesn't play as well as OneNote?" - nothing is perfect but I love your discussion and this was very helpful.

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Caroline M. Pointer
3/9/2012 12:49:30 pm

LOL, Tessa. I want to make my life simpler, not add more steps that are unnecessary. It all depends on how you research and how you use your genealogy software.

Thanks for reading and commenting. I appreciate it!

~C

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Carol link
3/9/2012 08:26:48 am

I LOVED OneNote too, until somehow I got a corrupted batch of files (not downloaded, something happened to my OneNote files on my hard drive. We spent hours trying to fix the files, never happened, very frustrating and a huge time sink.

Then, I needed a new computer.

THEN, the trouble started. It was months before I could figure out how to get only the good files to the new computer.

I can get some images off of Evernote, by the way, by highlighting the image, right clicking, choosing Open With and choosing Adobe Photoshop. Zap, in it goes. The one I was just testing opened as a png format, but, I can save as Jpg, Tiff, bmp, etc.

I like that I can go from my Android tablet to the net to my lap top with Evernote. And, for some reason, my mind understands the way Evernote works and organizes, understands better.

Yet, I still LOVE OneNote.

Now there is a pickle of a fix!

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Caroline M. Pointer
3/9/2012 12:54:22 pm

Carol, LOL. Yes, that is a pickle. One thing to remember is that the Evernote Notebooks are just a file management system. The notebooks are what we usually call folders.

As far as the images are concerned, I don't want to open my images of docs and web screenshots in yet another software like Paint or Photoshop. I just want to snap it, write a few quick notes on it & get it into my software so I can analyze it with my tree and other data.

It just comes down to what your research workflow is and how you use your genealogy software.

Thanks so much for reading and your comments. Means a lot to me.

~C

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Stephanie Pitcher Fishman link
3/9/2012 10:01:34 am

I'm still trying to figure out my system. I've been using Evernote for making my repository lists. I keep one folder for each repository, and as I do online research I create lists of records that I need to pull, notes that I'll need on-site, etc. I haven't used it to actually organize my research. I just started using OneNote and LOVE the way that I can make it visual with colors, blocks, importing docs, etc. I'm going to try to set up my OneNote on my ipad and on my phone to see if I can use it as I did Evernote. Still a work in progress...

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Caroline M. Pointer
3/9/2012 12:58:28 pm

Hey Stephanie! Evernote is a great idea for things like lists. Also, what genealogy software do you use. The one I have has built in ways to make to-do lists. And then there's GenSmarts. That rocks too. If you haven't already, check it out. It works with your genealogy databse.

Agree on the OneNote. It rocks! I've got a tutorial coming up on it for folks who want to see some of its capabilities. OCR capabilities beats Evernote's, hands down.

Thanks for commenting, Stephanie. See ya' on Twitter!

~C

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Linda McCauley link
3/9/2012 10:34:11 am

Great subject! I need to think about it before I really comment but for starters here's a couple of things.

I am using Evernote more and more for genealogy but for me it's a temporary home for most things not their permanent residence.

This all sorta relates to a RootsTech session I attended "A Report Card on the Genealogy Software Industry" - http://rootstech.org/schedule/friday/TU057. The presenters challenged everyone to go home and figure out their workflow then determine if their software of choice was really supporting that process. That has been in the back of my mind since I got home but I haven't done it yet.

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Caroline M. Pointer
3/9/2012 01:00:32 pm

Hey, Linda! It's important to evaluate your technology and figure out if it's doing all that tech can for you.

Because Evernote doesn't play well with others, I don't use it for things that are temporary, meaning things I plan to take out of there.

Thanks for reading & commenting! =)

~C

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Linda McCauley link
3/9/2012 01:15:41 pm

That wasn't a very good explanation on my part. I don't use Evernote for things I'm going to take out either. I never copy records to Evernote but will I clip search results that I haven't completely reviewed and add notes to explain where I am and what I'm doing. Once that chore is finished and I've documented everything in my db, I delete the note from Evernote because I don't need it any longer. Another example would be research notes when I don't have my laptop at a repository. I take my notes in Evernote on Tablet or Phone, later pull them up on the laptop and, once everything is added to my db, delete the note from Evernote. So, temporary stuff.

Debbie link
3/10/2012 02:59:59 am

I use Evernote to put stuff that I'm not yet sure what to do with. I haven't found a way to make it good for permanent storage, but I like it better than Bookmarks, so that's actually sort of what I use it for. OneNote was the same thing for me, but I had a lot of resources issues with OneNote plug ins. I still use it, but more for recipes (although Pinterest is taking that place) and for emails I want to save.

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Caroline M. Pointer
3/10/2012 03:44:44 am

Good point, Debbie. Evernote is great as a bookmarking system. Before Evernote, I started using diigo.com for all my bookmarking needs and so I've stuck with it.

Thanks for reading and commenting!

~C

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Caroline M. Pointer
3/10/2012 03:46:00 am

Linda, I understand your process now. Thanks for clarifying and sharing. I really appreciate it.

~C

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Susan Petersen link
3/10/2012 06:44:07 am

LOVE the term New Age Genealogist! That's what I am, too!

Reply
Caroline M. Pointer
3/10/2012 07:06:21 am

Thanks, Susan. I bought the domain New Age Genealogy. So expect to see more of it. I'm working on several ebooks, and that's one of them. =)

Thanks for stopping by and commenting!

~C

Reply
Susan link
3/10/2012 07:38:25 am

I'll be looking for it. Apparently I don't even know my OWN domain name as I absentmindedly type in "dot com" in my first comment rather than "dot net" !!! one of those days. BTW - I use both Evernote and One Note. Love 'em both, but for different uses and different reasons.

Diana Ritchie link
3/10/2012 07:54:51 am

So, do new age genealogist use crystals or incense or anything? ;-) And will I have to wear anything tie-dyed if I want to be one?!?! Can't wait to see more from you Caroline!

Jordan Jones link
3/11/2012 03:46:48 am

For me, Evernote is an essential part of my genealogy workflow. Even so, I understand the issues you are talking about. It's not always as easy to get stuff out of as I would like. However, some of the powerful features for me include:

Tagging - I have nested tags by surname and full-name, as well as by repository, locale, record type.

Searchability - The free product makes images searchable (even modern handwriting; alas, not historical handwriting). The paid version also indexes PDFs. (If you want this for free, you can put PDFs into Google Docs, then bring them out: They will be searchable.) A simple browser plug-in makes all of the written as well as OCRd text searchable on my desktop

Integration Opportunities - Jimmy Zimmerman's NoteFuser - http://notefuser.herokuapp.com/pages/home integrates Evernote with FamilySearch and Geni in the Chrome browser. This allows for viewing Evernote content right on a person page in these websites.

Of course, I have been using Evernote for four years and have thousands of notes. I have several gigabytes of PDF books, genealogy journals, as well as records. All of them are available for easy reference on any device I use. Dropbox is good, and I use it as well, but it doesn't give me full-text search across all of the content in it, including patterned search (tag: title: notebook:) and search into handwritten notes.

Thanks for your considered comments. I agree completely, everyone's workflow is different. For me, Evernote works as a storage location for everything I have found, but I agree, it's not as easy to get content out of.

I was glad to find your blog.

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Caroline M. Pointer
3/11/2012 04:13:58 am

Jordan,

I agree with you, Evernote has some great features as you mentioned, and I think Evernote is the way to go if you use your genealogy database as an end place to put your proven conclusions, and you like to keep your source documents and notes on how you came to a certain conclusion separately from your database.

I interviewed Jimmy at RootsTech 2012 and I love his app, but I don't use Geni.com and FamilySearch.org exclusively, and because of my workflow, I don't use Evernote. However, I think it's great for those who do use Evernote. It has great potential in that respect.

Evernote's OCR feature is great for searching, but if you attempt to take it out of the Evernote system because you want to attach it to a person in your database system, the OCR doesn't migrate. It's only for searching.

Overall, I think the genealogy database software doesn't support us in our online [and offline] research needs [for Evidenced-Based database software users.] Of course, if you're Conclusion-Based and conclude if a particular document does indeed support a fact AND you want to include the image of a document along with your notes that support your conclusion, the problem is the same. There's not an efficient and streamlined way to do that from Evernote to wherever you want it.

Thank you so much, Jordan, for stopping by and joining the conversation. I really appreciate it.

~C

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JG in MD link
3/13/2012 11:59:08 pm

I started doing online genealogy about 1996 and I do things the same way now. I don't have any technology except desktop & laptop. Each family or cluster of families has a Word folder, each person has a [Name] Notes document. I copy what I find into the notes or a .jpg file. Windows 7's screen clip feature helps a lot too. Then when I have time, I go through my notes and Add facts and sources to FTM? Delete the irrelevant or use strikethrough? Follow up on good clues? Analyze, reach a conclusion and write a report? (Okay, maybe that last is a sometime thing.)

I love bibliographies but they're devilish hard to make. Items in different formats with LoC/Dewey numbers, rarely both. Items at one local repository, or two, or none? Where did I see it? For which client? Zotero helps but has its problems. Memo to self: do a blog post on bibliographies.

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Caroline M. Pointer
3/14/2012 02:25:41 am

Thank you so much, JG, for weighing in. There are so many ways to handle our data - even more than I first thought.

Ah. Bibliographies. I hadn't delved into the technology for those at all. Meaning I hadn't discussed helps for them here [I've certainly used them.], but I do have a few to share. Note to self: Post on technology to help with bibliographies. LOL.

Thanks for stopping by and commenting. I appreciate it.

~C

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Tony Timmins link
3/15/2012 04:31:30 am

Caroline,
A very interesting article. I started using Evernote but have now reverted back to capturing selections of pages as reqd, this way I can use the jpg or png files in blog posts, emails or family history programs as needed. All the images are saved into folders in my Dropbox account.
Tony

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4YourFamilyStory
7/4/2012 04:14:57 am

Thanks, Tony. Once upon a time, Evernote used to make it easy to get your info out of it. While it's not a completely closed ecosystem, it doesn't play well with others unless the developers are official partners with them.

Thanks for reading & commenting!

~C

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Jenny Lanctot link
8/23/2012 12:55:59 pm

Caroline, I'm so glad I found this post (from reading your post today).

My workflow is VERY similar to yours (apparently I am an evidence-based researcher, who knew?) I think this is why I had such a hard time with Evernote. I kept using it and trying to make it work with my style, but it just wouldn't. So, now I'm going to try OneNote. We'll see how that goes.

However, I can see the usefulness of Evernote with the sort of tasks like Linda talked about (and I may actually steal that idea), but I think OneNote might be "the one."

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Caroline M. Pointer
8/24/2012 03:48:43 am

I'm glad I could help, Jenny. We can get caught up doing and doing that we forget our overall plan and why we're doing things a certain way.

And? Thanks for reading. I appreciate it. =)

~C

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Kathleen Tesluk link
9/1/2013 02:48:51 pm

Hi Caroline, while I know this post is a year old, the issues are still very relevant. Genealogy software developers simply don't support those of us who are passionate about our sources and want to use the cloud for our research. I tried Evernote, but I didn't like the notebook-style data presentation. I see that another commenter on this thread mentioned Zotero, which I have started to use and think comes pretty darn close to the ideal. It is a program that is aimed at academic researchers, but with tweaks here and there works perfectly for genealogy. My only concern with Zotero is how hard (i.e.., nearly impossible) it is to import existing data from a spreadsheet, although importing is a snap if sources exist in any online library catalog. It will export a file in a text or bibliographic format, though.

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